Instant powerwall

@ riveracc1, you are welcome to do, have fun. ;)

@ Gary Matthews, suggestions arevery much welcome... :)
slides,yes tought about that, even bought some plastic spacers to do it, but did not, to minimise the inflammable materials in the cabinet.
Insteadihave installed some spacerson the back of thepacks to prevent them touching each other or the cabinets sideswhen removing or installing the packs.
Voltage drop on the pack, there is some under havy load, but i do not thinkitis due tothe busbars, they are plenty heavy, there is a drop in voltage on the battery's themselve under load.
i included some Batrium pic's, just nowtaken, the difference in voltagebetween charging and a load almost6Kw is on there... Might be of some interest...

Charging

image_toegft.jpg


Discharging

image_uykvke.jpg
 
Very nice setup, it's made me rethink the way I'm laying out mine.

I'd doubt if having both busbars terminate at the one end of the pack will cause you any issues.
A simple test would be to tap in a pair of voltmeters that you have confidence in at the front and back of one of the packs and monitor them at high current draw.
If the busbars are causing an issue you will have higher voltage at the back versus the front.
In the very off chance you have a difference at your highest current draw they will self balance again as the current draw drops.
 
The balance part is not an issue in that sense the issue is that you will load the cells closer to the terminal alot harder and could potentially wear them out a bit quicker and in end loose some cycles in total.
With that said its only with high load and in total.. Nah not sure it will affect if the busbars are thick enough :)
 
If there's no voltage drop along the busbar how will the cells closest to the terminals work harder?
Sorry for the dumb question.
 
They wont work harder if no drop. But unless you have 100mm2 busbars you will get voltage drops even if they are just 0.1V or even 0.01V :)
 
Just to do a test and satisfie my own curiosity i am going to solder a volt meter on the front and back of one pack... i will post te result on the thread i have started about this ( probably non-) issue.... http://secondlifestorage.com/t-Mistake-busbars
I think a load around 100Awilldo :)

@ Jon - a question is never a dumb question ....
 
A real life test is the best way to know. I have done the same and for instance checked my voltage drop on cables between inverter and batteries at 160A and such :)

Just calibrate the voltmeters before start.

you can also just run a voltmeter and meassure the diff between cell1 and cell xx on positive side. If there is voltage drop you will se it in terms of 0.1 or 0.01 and such :)
 
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I realy realy like the way you practicaly arranged the packs in a cupboard!

I'm by far not there yet, but you inspired me to perhaps do it the same way :)

Keep up the good work, I'm following your adventures

Regards,

Ivo Staelens
 
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On your generator:

I see you seem to put it on the inside? How about the exhaust fumes?

Can you tell me what generator you are using (brand and type) ?

What do you do with the power coming from the generator? Directly into your inverter, replacing as it were the grid? Is the power "clean" enough? Or doesn't your inverter mind on getting some "dirty" generator power?

Have you tested your system already as if in off grid mode? Have you tested operation with generator?

I'm asking all these questions because one day I have the dream off going off grid with my house, but I already came to the conclusion a generator will be needed in the winter months, so I'm quite curious on the operation of the system with generator
 
Yep, indoors, it is a watercooled marine generator, designed for indoor (engine-room) use.
Exhaust is pipedthrough the wall to the open air.

It is aFarymann 1 cilinder diesel 8Kva 220V 50Hz watercooled engine andgenerator head. Power is clean enough for all appliances and electronics, no problems there.

I use the generator as a chargerin normal use, the chargers (3x2000W only for the generator)are happywith the power producedby the generator. The chargers are controlled by the BMS to prevent overcharging.
I have installed a switch to connect the generatorto my house loads, thisonly for backupin case ofinverter failure.


image_bflwpr.jpg


Inverter and house installationare 3-Phase, my diy water-water heatpump heating needs 3Ph, so on generator backuppower the the heatpump will not work.

Iuse my system off-grid,for now with manual generator start and stop.... working on a system for some automation on this.
Only my older solar system with diy trackeris still grid-tie (with some gouverment sponsoring ;) )...
I am planning to use/test my system for a full year before going 100% off grid.

In the winter there is no way to be off grid without some power generaton besides solar... i plan to run my generator for a few hours a day to charge the batterys and at the same time generate hot water to store in my 1000L water buffer tank, it takes care of heating and hot water.
Extra heating is done with heatpump and pallet stove (also connectedto the buffer tank.)

Now working on a system to set thedaily generator run-time (soc% battery) in function of the next day wheater forecast...
Lots of coding to do ... will post updates here. :)
 
wim said:
Yep, indoors, it is a watercooled marine generator, designed for indoor (engine-room) use.
Exhaust is pipedthrough the wall to the open air.

It is aFarymann 1 cilinder diesel 8Kva 220V 50Hz watercooled engine andgenerator head. Power is clean enough for all appliances and electronics, no problems there.

I use the generator as a chargerin normal use, the chargers (3x2000W only for the generator)are happywith the power producedby the generator. The chargers are controlled by the BMS to prevent overcharging.
I have installed a switch to connect the generatorto my house loads, thisonly for backupin case ofinverter failure.


image_bflwpr.jpg


Inverter and house installationare 3-Phase, my diy water-water heatpump heating needs 3Ph, so on generator backuppower the the heatpump will not work.

Iuse my system off-grid,for now with manual generator start and stop.... working on a system for some automation on this.
Only my older solar system with diy trackeris still grid-tie (with some gouverment sponsoring ;) )...
I am planning to use/test my system for a full year before going 100% off grid.

In the winter there is no way to be off grid without some power generaton besides solar... i plan to run my generator for a few hours a day to charge the batterys and at the same time generate hot water to store in my 1000L water buffer tank, it takes care of heating and hot water.
Extra heating is done with heatpump and pallet stove (also connectedto the buffer tank.)

Now working on a system to set thedaily generator run-time (soc% battery) in function of the next day wheater forecast...
Lots of coding to do ... will post updates here. :)
Click to expand...

Impressive, I'll keep following you.

I'll take it one step at a time. And I hope I'll get there one day.

Regards,

Ivo
 
Wim,

since you use this setup purely offgrid, is there any form of regulation, (electricity approval, fire assurance, or any other) involved, or is this a basement project off the records?

since also Belgium and playing with the idea (not yet made up to grid-tie or not (regulated or not :p)) for a while now, but i can't seem to get any straight answers from anyone (let alone the complete denial involved when you start talking)

i'm guessing you are doing it my way (the far in the backyard, out of sight way)

good luck on the project :)
 
I still have a grid connection... ( for my first grid-tie, older solar system and backup for the next year or so ) therfore a electrical aproval is still needed.
As a certified electrician, i did the work myselve. :)

Important is to have decent transfer switches, my off-grid inverter is neverconnected to the house loads at te same time as the grid.
All the rest need to be as regulated.
 
Bert said:
Wim,

since you use this setup purely offgrid, is there any form of regulation, (electricity approval, fire assurance, or any other) involved, or is this a basement project off the records?

since also Belgium and playing with the idea (not yet made up to grid-tie or not (regulated or not :p)) for a while now, but i can't seem to get any straight answers from anyone (let alone the complete denial involved when you start talking)

i'm guessing you are doing it my way (the far in the backyard, out of sight way)

good luck on the projec:)
Click to expand...

I have also been wondering about the official side of things. What about fire Insurance? What about the technical check on the DC side. Is there a need to have like a certified body control the entire setup? I think if you want the fire Insurance to go ahead with your setup, they'll need some kind of certificate that all is technicaly ok.

Anyone else here knowing anything about this?

I plan on going off grid in time caus I think it's a disgrace that I'm still paying around 300 a year for not using one kWh of electricity... So basicaly 300 a year just to use the grid
 
IvoStaelens said:
Bert said:
Wim,

since you use this setup purely offgrid, is there any form of regulation, (electricity approval, fire assurance, or any other) involved, or is this a basement project off the records?

since also Belgium and playing with the idea (not yet made up to grid-tie or not (regulated or not :p)) for a while now, but i can't seem to get any straight answers from anyone (let alone the complete denial involved when you start talking)

i'm guessing you are doing it my way (the far in the backyard, out of sight way)

good luck on the projec:)
Click to expand...

I have also been wondering about the official side of things. What about fire Insurance? What about the technical check on the DC side. Is there a need to have like a certified body control the entire setup? I think if you want the fire Insurance to go ahead with your setup, they'll need some kind of certificate that all is technicaly ok.

Anyone else here knowing anything about this?

I plan on going off grid in time caus I think it's a disgrace that I'm still paying around 300 a year for not using one kWh of electricity... So basicaly 300 a year just to use the grid
Click to expand...


Maybe you shoud start a new thread on this topic ?

220V part needs to be certified,as demanded by theelectricity compagny and Insurance.
DC part is of no concern to the electricity compagny if off-grid, for Insurance ... well for sureyour Insurance cost will rise (solar panels and battery's )
I did not yet talked to my Insurance guy, but will and, advise everyone to do the same.
 
Ok Wim,

I will have to borrow some of your design. I wish you were my neighbor. :DSo 1 Longmon can manage up to how many cells? I would like to eventually run 2 packs per longmon. (200 cells)
 
Your are welcome to do... ;)

I have 180 cells on 1 longmon ( for now ) at the end its gonna be 360 cells ( i am using new ones, so they are pretty balanced already )
i have the longmons sitting in a duct with a fan to get some airflow around them when balancing.
No issues at all, top-balancing only takes about 1h and the packs are not more than 0.02V in difference.

If needed you can always connect a second longmon in time, for now you should be fine with one longmon for 200 cells.
 
wim said:
Your are welcome to do... ;)

I have 180 cells on 1 longmon ( for now ) at the end its gonna be 360 cells ( i am using new ones, so they are pretty balanced already )
i have the longmons sitting in a duct with a fan to get some airflow around them when balancing.
No issues at all, top-balancing only takes about 1h and the packs are not more than 0.02V in difference.

If needed you can always connect a second longmon in time, for now you should be fine with one longmon for 200 cells.
Click to expand...

Ok thats great. I am now planning to arrange the first 14 pack down the center of the rack. 2 on each shelf. Then in time I can expand by adding packs in parallel. Instead of fixed busmars I will most likely use premade xt90patch cords. Do u think 8 gage will be sufficient thru the entire pack? XT90 they say can handle 90amps. Wen I am able to tie in the house load the biggest draw will be the AC and I believ that is on a 60 amp breaker.
 
XT90 can do 90A burst but keep it half that and your good.
 
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